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 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter

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Jaron
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:06 pm

gfields5 wrote:
Ok, well I haven’t been on this website in a while, though I guess I just thought I would interject for a second. Now I don’t mean to disrespect any of the past players from the supposed “glory years,” but I just don’t quite agree that the most talented of the glory years are better than the most talented now. Obviously I am biased, just as Jaron, Butters, and the rest are also biased; however I do truly believe that the top talent this past year is definitely comparable to the top talent during the “glory years.”

Here is the list of 9 players that Jaron mentioned heading to NCAA teams from the “glory years”

2004 Brad Campbell, Mars Hill D2
2004 Jace Rauman, Saint Leo D2
2004 Brad Sollenberger, Whittier D3
2005 Kevin Bice, Goucher D3
2006 Nick Neuman, Ithaca D3
2006 Jaron Klopstein, Fontbonne D3
2006 Alex Panosian, Army D1
2006 Tom Gebhardt, Kenyon D3
2006 Ryan Mayfield, Fontbonne D3

Well from last year alone, there were 12 kids recruited to NCAA schools.

Zach Nichols – Detroit Mercy (DI)
Austin Grimes – Wheeling Jesuit (DII)
Tom Casper – Alvernia (DIII)
Alex Smith – Carthage (DIII)
Colton Warner – Carthage (DIII)
Nick Hamachek – Carthage (DIII)
David Hoeft – Carthage (DIII)
Ben Fisher – Carthage (DIII)
Ryan Cynkar – Carthage (DIII)
Rich Poiroir – Colby (DIII)
Myself – Kenyon (DIII)
Joe Botticelli – RPI (DIII)

Just as Gebhard and Jaron put up points during their first years, Casper (2g, 1a in two games) and Hummel (2g, 2a in three games) have put up points in the beginning of their NCAA careers. While no one at this point is anywhere near Neuman’s level or anything, we are all freshmen and have four full seasons to prove ourselves. When comparing the players of the future to the players of old, you cannot compare the current players as they are now to the players of old at their current state. While Bice, Neuman, etc may be significantly better than all current players at their current level, the current players will obviously be significantly worse because all of the collegiate players have three years of college experience on them. I would assume that over the next few years, the current Wisconsin players will prove themselves to be just as good if not better than the majority of the players of the "glory days."

As for Jaron's point on the coaching gap - yes, in comparison to other states their is definitely a coaching gap; however, the quality of coaching and competition has increased dramatically over the past three-four years. This is having a significant effect on the type of players who play lacrosse, as certain athletes who would normally run track or just prepare for other sports in their off-seasons are beginning to pick up a stick. This is manifesting itself in many ways, as not only have the number of high school players in the state increasing dramatically, but their are also more all-around athletes playing Wisconsin lacrosse than ever before.

Regarding Sean, he is one of if not the most talented players in the state and has improved significantly throughout the summer and off-season. Watching his performances while playing for Milwaukee Select, he is starting to solidify himself as one of the most talented players in the history of Wisconsin (there is a reason why he is getting looks from teams ranging from UPenn to W&L). While I would disagree that he is Marquette’s only player (Marquette has a host of defensive talent, one of the top goalies in the state in Gradecki, and a substantial amount of unknown talent at the midfield and attack), I will agree that he has the potential to win games for Marquette. He can put up 5-6 goals a game, and those 5-6 goals a game can be the difference between a win and a loss. While he won’t win the games singlehandedly, he has the potential to be THE player for Marquette that can take them from being a decent team to a very good team.

Look how many players you have on that list from Carthage. I know several, several kids from the "glory years" as you continue to say who were recruited and turned down Carthage. Me included. Its not like we said no because its not a good school, its a great school, with great coaches, we just are happy where we are.

I'm willing to say, you let us put together our All Star team from '04-'06 against your '07-'09 team, and it would be a destruction. Fields, your one of the best long poles to ever come from this state, but there isn't tons of you guys. Not yet at least.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:14 pm

Milkmen vs. high school all-stars?
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:27 pm

Jaron wrote:
I'm willing to say, you let us put together our All Star team from '04-'06 against your '07-'09 team, and it would be a destruction. Fields, your one of the best long poles to ever come from this state, but there isn't tons of you guys. Not yet at least.

Well of course Jaron cause most of you guys have been playing for 4 or more years longer than the '07-'09 kids. There is no true way to compare the two classes.

I say leave it at what it is, there were some amazing players that came out of Madison back in the day...and as lax is growing there are some pretty good players coming out of pretty much everywhere in Wisconsin now.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:31 pm

"milkmen vs high school all-stars"
lets do it sometime during brewtown and have sid ref it....for old time sake
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Now there's something I'd love to see

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:26 pm

Of all the posts I've read so far, Jaron's was what I felt encapsulated the passion exhibited by the class of '05. We loved the game, passionately, because we had all been there from the onset of the HS game in the state and had a stake in the sport's success. Watching a new sport grow up around you, as a direct result of your efforts, is something incomparable to what you see in the state now, save for the few kids I can remember who were playing as youngsters back then (i.e. Neuman's little bro).

What's begun to start happening, and will continue to happen at a faster pace, is that you'll see the WI guys who've gone off to play high-level ball come back to Wisconsin to contribute their knowledge where they started. A good example of this is a guy like Jace Rauman who was with Middleton after stints at St. Leo's and Mercyhurst. As these guys begin coming back to share their knowledge, the game will really take off. And this isn't to take away from the things being accomplished by guys like Tom Darcy and Brian Lucas; I'm saying we need more guys like them, and we're going to get that from younger guys coming back home.

It all starts with coaching, and for us the only way to get that coaching was to head to camps cross-country. I'd like to see guys around the state taking more of a proactive approach in getting some better coaching; things like Jaron's Infinity personal lacrosse lessons, Badger State Camp, or traveling to MN / IL and sponging up whatever they can from high-end coaches from across the country.

As for Gebhard, I can't see I've seen him play before, but it sounds like he's a hell of a player, and one who needs a Minnesota Gopher education...
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:12 pm

1. Fields, also you forgot Hummel at Gywenn-Mercy DIII.
2. You can not say has over recruited! Look at the roster they only have 29 players. Some are still on there but they quit earlier in the year.
3. Verona would have never sent that many kids to DIII, come on lets be real.
4. Idk know if i remember correct but Carthage beat UWM who had the "glory years" players.
5. Brewtown, I wanna see Milkmen vs Team Carthage we will see who wins then after your first year in the mcla and theirs in NCAA. (thats only if they can get there guys to come)
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:14 pm

ohh and Warner never showed up at Carthage.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:26 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:
1. Fields, also you forgot Hummel at Gywenn-Mercy DIII.
2. You can not say has over recruited! Look at the roster they only have 29 players. Some are still on there but they quit earlier in the year.
3. Verona would have never sent that many kids to DIII, come on lets be real.
4. Idk know if i remember correct but Carthage beat UWM who had the "glory years" players.
5. Brewtown, I wanna see Milkmen vs Team Carthage we will see who wins then after your first year in the mcla and theirs in NCAA. (thats only if they can get there guys to come)

Basically 2 to be exact. I can't speak for Jack but I know I had 5 points in that game.

Oh and in regards to Verona, Storts, Bice, Schnirring, the Rohrers, Garret, Butters, Robocop, AJ, LP, and Russel were all recruited. No one really wanted to be the guinea pig, Bice was the only one to go.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:28 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:
1. Fields, also you forgot Hummel at Gywenn-Mercy DIII.
2. You can not say has over recruited! Look at the roster they only have 29 players. Some are still on there but they quit earlier in the year.
3. Verona would have never sent that many kids to DIII, come on lets be real.
4. Idk know if i remember correct but Carthage beat UWM who had the "glory years" players.
5. Brewtown, I wanna see Milkmen vs Team Carthage we will see who wins then after your first year in the mcla and theirs in NCAA. (thats only if they can get there guys to come)

They quit earlier in the year, because they over-recruited and people realized they realistically wouldn't get playing time.

Verona would TOO have sent that many people to D3. All the players Storts is referencing DID have interest from D3, a couple even had interest from D1 Bellarmine.

The Milkmen aren't in the MCLA

Carthage beat UWM sure, we have 2 players on our team that are being mentioned...


Every point you listed is wrong to some extent...
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:29 pm

[quote="Jaron"]
Ron Mexico wrote:
1. Fields, also you forgot Hummel at Gywenn-Mercy DIII.
2. You can not say has over recruited! Look at the roster they only have 29 players. Some are still on there but they quit earlier in the year.
3. Verona would have never sent that many kids to DIII, come on lets be real.
4. Idk know if i remember correct but Carthage beat UWM who had the "glory years" players.
5. Brewtown, I wanna see Milkmen vs Team Carthage we will see who wins then after your first year in the mcla and theirs in NCAA. (thats only if they can get there guys to come)

Basically 2 to be exact. I can't speak for Jack but I know I had 5 points in that game.

Oh and in regards to Verona, Storts, Bice, Schnirring, the Rohrers, Garret, Butters, Robocop, AJ, LP, and Russel were all recruited. No one really wanted to be the guinea pig, Bice was the only one to go.

Oh yea, not a single one of those Wisconsin players on Carthage has registered one point this year, and I know their starting goalie is from Missouri.

This argument is over, sign up for Infinity Lacrosse, get better, prove me wrong.

Fin.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:39 pm

...one last thing.

Milkmen vs. Carthage? Bring it on.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:54 pm

I'd love to see that game.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:08 am

I figured that I'd chime in as I have somewhat of a unique perspective from a lot of you guys. I don't know most of you, but my name is Ian Mark and I came through during the same time as the "glory years" guys, except that I played in Milwaukee.

Back in 2003, I helped to start Marquette's team, one of the three original Milwaukee teams. We couldn't find a coach, so I filled many roles as player/coach/captain/fundraiser/game scheduler. I can remember calling some of the original coaches to schedule games (ie Mark King and Brad Campbell's dad). I went on to play for a DIII school in Ohio where I played against Jaron at Fontbonne and Tom Gebhardt at Kenyon (they kicked our asses so badly that they even let him play... just kidding tom, if you're out there).

I've seen recent high school games when I've come back to help out with Marquette's team, and I have also watched the Milkmen play at last year's brewtown. Now I play for a college club team in NY where we have many grad students who played top college ball including the 3-year starting goalie at Middlebury, guys from Army, St. Andrews, Villanova, and many other schools.

Guys like Bice, Neuman, Jaron, Panosian, Fields, Grimes, have shown that top players have come out of both eras. Whether or not one is better is irrelevant. Regardless of what era we're from, I think that we all want the future WI HS alumni to far exceed our accomplishments.

One way to to achieve this goal is to contribute the knowledge that we have and will continue to gain. I applaud the many WI HS alumni who have returned to their schools, or have become the coaches of new schools. When I played in high school, outside of the couple of weeks that I spent in camps, I was my own coach. That's a great reason why my fundamentals are not nearly as strong as they should be. It's a great opportunity for our current high school players to learn from guys who've played at the next level.

We should also continue to develop a pipeline for our top players to compete against each other during the summers. As more WI HS alumns play in college, we finally have more of a base to develop a widespread summer league.

I realize that this post has already surpassed the length of every other post combined - and if you're still reading, I'm impressed. After reading the overwhelming response to this topic I figured that I would post my thoughts.

Thanks to Jaron, Jack, et al for creating and supporting this forum. It's great to see the high levels of activity. If anyone here plays for Marquette U, I might see you on the field next weekend as a guest member of Mad Cow.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:00 am

Ian, nice post, and an excellent point. The ultimate goal is to keep WI lacrosse on the rise, and with the advent of youth teams, and the return of home-grown coaches, that certainly seems to be the case.

Your high school career is a bit too distant for many on this forum to recall, but your story at Oberlin is without a doubt one of the best of any WI laxer to date. I don't believe anyone here has captained an NCAA team, let alone a WI laxer from the early days.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:14 am

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in on Wisconsin Lacrosse from an outside perspective being from the east coast.

The biggest thing missing that sticks out to me is an established youth program. I started playing in the 7th grade and even at that age lacrosse was offered almost year round if you wanted to play. I have 2 younger brothers and both started playing in the 3rd grade. I would say the youth program I was in has also expanded greatly since I was involved. My youngest brother is in 6th grade and in the spring time he travels to tournaments in NY and CT. My other brother is now in HS but is also on a select team and plays fall ball, indoor in the winter, HS in the spring, and will be attending some select showcases this summer.

It seems like lacrosse at the High School level in Wisconsin is growing rapidly but if you can establish youth programs you will see the talent level grow.

PS-Yeomen5: Marquette is in California for games this weekend and upcoming week
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:26 am

Well, seeing as we've gotten a little off topic with 2-3 pages of college-related and "glory days" lacrosse, can we return to a 2009 HS discussion?
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:33 pm

^^JRM, I don't know about Milwaukee, but the Madison area has a very strong youth program. You can start in 2nd grade here through Lacrosse America. The surrounding areas Stoughton, Waunakee, Verona, Sun Prairie, and Middleton all have youth programs starting at 4th grade. Unfortunately, there is only one Madison city youth program.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:34 pm

The Great Laxby wrote:
Well, seeing as we've gotten a little off topic with 2-3 pages of college-related and "glory days" lacrosse, can we return to a 2009 HS discussion?

Yeah I agree.....does anybody want to talk about the Bay Valley?
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:36 pm

Give us some information about Bay Valley. This forum tends to be Madison/Milwaukee dominated. It's not that we don't want to talk about Bay Valley, we just don't know anything about anyone outside maybe Wausau.
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:14 pm

Well im from wausau... i usually read through all the forum topics i just never really have any input to give. ha sorry
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:13 pm

Butters wrote:
Give us some information about Bay Valley. This forum tends to be Madison/Milwaukee dominated. It's not that we don't want to talk about Bay Valley, we just don't know anything about anyone outside maybe Wausau.

Yep out of everyone here I would say only a handful are form Bay Vally.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:34 pm

Butters wrote:
Give us some information about Bay Valley. This forum tends to be Madison/Milwaukee dominated. It's not that we don't want to talk about Bay Valley, we just don't know anything about anyone outside maybe Wausau.

I did give my prediction for the season on page 2 of this thread, i gave some info on each team....at least what i knew....but check that out and i hope we can get some discussion started because i'm on here all the time and nobody talks about us from the Bay Valley
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:05 pm

Right and the reason no one talks about Bay Vally is because no one on here knows anything about them and there are only a few people form Bay Vally that post up on here to give us any info. If you want more Bay Vally discussion tell your lax friends about the site and have them join.

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PostSubject: Re: 2009 High School Season -- Predictions and Banter   Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:41 pm

Thursday, February 26, 2009 Reprinted from The Green Bay Press Gazette

Blogging with Brooker

Even before the snow has a chance to melt, the lacrosse season will be underway in area gyms and parking lots around Green Bay and the Fox Valley. Who knew that when the first high school lacrosse game between Green Bay Notre Dame and Menasha took place 10 years ago, a 10-team conference would arise?Or that there would be 30 varsity teams across the state?Or that Carthage College will run Wisconsin’s first NCAA DIII program this spring; with MSOE on their heels next season?

This year the Bay-Valley Conference (Appleton, Bay Port, De Pere, Green Bay Metro, Menasha, Neenah, Notre Dame Academy, Oneida Tribal School, Southwest, and Wausau) will be hosting the Wisconsin Lacrosse Federation State Championship at Neenah High School on Saturday, June 6. The fight for this “home field” advantage will provide some exciting lacrosse action in the area this spring.The quality of the game has changed tremendously over the last decade. Raw physicality is being replaced with the finesse play you see on cable TV. Big hits still happen, but they are more meaningful as opposed to gratuitous bloodlust.Coaches still spend the beginning of the season teaching new players the fundamentals of throwing and catching a small, solid rubber ball and the most basic principals of the game, but new players are getting into the game at a younger age.As the sport grows, we have a need for personnel – both at the coaching and officiating level. We’re still short on referees and hoping some relocated former lacrosse players will come out of the woodwork and help officiate.

Brooker's takes on area teams:

Appleton: After a rough start, 2006 state champion Appleton started to find their momentum mid-season. This is a team I don’t know a lot about. If they maintained the core of their team, Appleton could be a strong opponent in the conference.

Bay Port: The Pirates are seeing the benefit of a strong youth program. This summer, during some downtime at the Badger State Camp at UW-Whitewater, goalie Jon Mullins was shelled by Duke University’s scoring-sensation, All-American Zach Grier – saving all but three, and one of those shots pulled the strings out of Mullin’s pocket, letting the ball thorough. This will be the Pirates most well-balanced team of late, with both a strong offense and defense.

De Pere: Last year in its first varsity season, De Pere was raw, but made up for it with pure athleticism. Not sure who has left and who is returning, but there will be a new goalie in the net, which could make or break the team.

Green Bay Metro: The Rebels are made up of a mix of Preble, Ashwaubenon, West De Pere and Pulaski athletes. Last season they provided solid competition, holding a close game with conference champ Wausau. They have a big shooter in Ashwaubenon’s Michael Pannke, but will be bringing in a new goalie, and lost a strong midfielder in Andy Brenzel.

Menasha: Once the conference powerhouse in the beginning, Menasha has struggled the last few years. However, they do have some solid athletes, and with new coaches this year, some structure may regain some of that old magic.

Neenah: The Rockets are a well-coached team with strong fundamentals. Their attack and defense are traditionally strong. A strong returning goalie in Ben Birtch solidifies the defense making this team a conference contender.

Notre Dame: The Tritons graduated solid face-off specialist Alex Smith, as well as some tough defenders. Jake Smith returns in goal, and if they recruit from this year’s hockey team, the Tritons could provide some tough competition.

Oneida Tribal School: Last year, the school dropped baseball from their spring schedule and brought on lacrosse. A rough go at the JV level last year, the Thunderhawks have learned a lot and will have a better year this year. My hope is they start a new area tradition as other Iroquois tribes have done in New York and Canada, and churn out some solid lacrosse players in the future.

Southwest: The Trojans had a rough season last year after graduating several key players and losing a long-standing coach. Talking to the kids, they are hungry to make a comeback. Their new coach will is putting the work in to get the kids back on track, and can be a dark horse this season.

Wausau: Hard to beat the last couple years, the conference champions Wolfpack team graduated a strong starting lineup. Not to be underestimated, the ‘Pack is well-coached and will be a big contender to take conference once again.
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