Badger State Games

Forgive some people for just wanting to play some lacrosse in the summer, its not like there are just opportunities bursting out of the seams in Wisconsin.

Speaking on behalf of my self the Janesville Goalie I had no problem with the line up we had. I mean in all fairness it was a wake up call. We had 16 of our 35 men show up. We had 50% of of starters there. After that first game vs Sun Par. I got nailed in the elbow and i had to play my next 2 games with the left hand.

If i hadn't worked on my off hand with an attack stick all summer i would had easily gave up the few goals i saved lol. Being a first year team sucks no doubt, but now with all the fees of buying stuff are gone we can upgrade and work out more.

It wasn't like our Verona alumni team was full of college ringers, as Referee implies. We were basically the same team of guys that owned the state for three years.

I remember alot of Green Bay area people saying "they can't all be under 19"...perhaps if the Green Bay area had the guts to play any Madison teams back in the day, those whining would have remembered us, and realized that we were all a year removed from high school.

Haha, "fiasco." Gotta love it.

So why exactly is everyone targeting the Green Bay area teams in this forum for a tournament that none of them participated in? If we want them to compete with Madison teams in BSG next year it should be said that this year was a big turn around from the previous year in terms of rules being fallowed (or not fallowed) and can only get better in the years to come. If they don't want to play lacrosse as much as possible, that just hurts themselves because everyone else who did compete is out progessing for the betterment (is that a word?) of the quality of lacrosse being played in Wisconsin. It just puts them behind in the ever changing sport of lacrosse in this state.

in my opinion, when the rules state 19 and under, teh fault goes to whoever wrote them wrong, and not to the teams that followed them, refering too...

referee wrote:

True enough. But 2006 BSGs 19 & under rule was a mistake. It should have been 18 and under. The V. Allumi team in 2006 exploited that mistake, to the detriment of competition in the games.

Moral: the existence of a loophole in the rules doesn't mean it has to be followed.

referee wrote:

Moral: the existence of a loophole in the rules doesn't mean it has to be followed.

It's no "loophole" It was clearly stated 19 AND Under. Abiding by a very straight forward rule is not taking advantage of any "loophole" as you try to lead it on as. In fact, as you look at http://www.sportsinwisconsin.com/bsg/index.php?category_id=968&subcategory_id=2590 you'll notice there's no mention of "high school" anywhere. So clearly the fact that someone is in high school or not is immaterial. And I recall us playing two very competitive games versus Sid Flanders last year, with our only win above 2-3 goals versus a Sun Prairie team that was drastically shorthanded from its regular season squad.

The Butters wrote:

And I recall us playing two very competitive games versus Sid Flanders last year.

rofl

he always seems to put up a fight

I dont feel like our to cheated the system as it is being implied. As stated earlier there is a whopping 2 weekends over the summer we can play competitive lacrosse in this state, one of them being BSG. I know all of our team was certainly under the age requirments.

Had there been a 19 and over division, we certainly would have preferred it, but the tournament was created as it was, and we played in it. Certainly this cannot be described as a "fiasco." Had we lost the championship to the Regent team would you be putting up the same argument?

Either way, we took advantage of an oppurtunity to play the sport we love. Perhaps if some heads in this state did something about the lack of lacrosse to play over the summer and created a league for us to play in every week, it would have never happened in the first place.

In all honesty yeah, a year can make a difference, but its a team effort. Now if the whole team was like 19, that would be something different. Besides that, it shouldn't really matter because you can do the same thing they did. I just think you didn't realize it and now your upset.

Booya, Jaron. That's probably the most valid point I've heard on these boards.

The Butters wrote:

referee wrote:

Moral: the existence of a loophole in the rules doesn't mean it has to be followed.

It's no "loophole" It was clearly stated 19 AND Under. Abiding by a very straight forward rule is not taking advantage of any "loophole" as you try to lead it on as. In fact, as you look at http://www.sportsinwisconsin.com/bsg/index.php?category_id=968&subcategory_id=2590 you'll notice there's no mention of "high school" anywhere. So clearly the fact that someone is in high school or not is immaterial. ...

What do you think the "H" and the "S" stand for in "NFHSA Rules", head and shoulders? Look it up.

I rest my case.

so make the tournament "high school'' rather than u19... why are you whining?

I find it curious that those rules are also being applied to the 19 & over division. Unless Verona's VIP is fielding numerous teams, those would be considered college level players. In Illinois, they use NCAA rules, does that mean every kid on those high school teams also attends a local college in the mean time to make them eligible? I know, maybe you were involved in making the rules last year, and you messed up, so this is your last ditch effort to blame someone else.

The Butters wrote:

I find it curious that those rules are also being applied to the 19 & over division. Unless Verona's VIP is fielding numerous teams, those would be considered college level players. In Illinois, they use NCAA rules, does that mean every kid on those high school teams also attends a local college in the mean time to make them eligible? I know, maybe you were involved in making the rules last year, and you messed up, so this is your last ditch effort to blame someone else.

The Commissioner makes the rules. He should have added the mens lacrosse rules this year, because clearly they were seeking to provide men level competition this year by opening it up to 19 and over, not just high school competition like last year.

Why didn't Verona put together its Allumi team from last year again, instead of mining many of the other MALA teams this year?

Lefty019 wrote:

he always seems to put up a fight

I fail to see the humor in desparaging someone in this forum who has devoted a good share of his life to refereeing this sport, and who has done a fairly decent job of it on top of it in my opinion. Talk about whinning! Geez.

referee wrote:

Lefty019 wrote:

he always seems to put up a fight

I fail to see the humor in desparaging someone in this forum who has devoted a good share of his life to refereeing this sport, and who has done a fairly decent job of it on top of it in my opinion. Talk about whinning! Geez.

owned, you're getting pretty sassy there Butters

referee wrote:

Lefty019 wrote:

he always seems to put up a fight

I fail to see the humor in desparaging someone in this forum who has devoted a good share of his life to refereeing this sport, and who has done a fairly decent job of it on top of it in my opinion. Talk about whinning! Geez.

Yes, someone who is banned from reffing in a league does a great job. While I'm not sure of of who this Verona "Allumi", I can not speak for why they didn't put together a team. Our Channel 4 team was an assembly of friends put together to field a fun and competitive team and play good competition in Brewtown. I also recall the only people complaining about us being you, so I fail to see this "whining" you speak of, I clearly commended Sid for putting up such a valiant effort against us. Those Green Bay teams you said "refused to come down after last years 'fiasco'". I recall Pat Shea explaining to me that the team Amanda Brooker fielded last year, just didn't have the interest it did last year, and they apologized for not being able to come. While the Milwaukee team, was unaware of the tournament until too late, another cover up on your part? You are complaining to the wrong group, the players in that tournament had respect for each other, and I recall us playing a great game with the group of kids who comprised the talent on that combined West team. Quit making issues where there clearly are not.

Madhater, do you know what's going on?

Referee wrote:

Quote :

Why didn't Verona put together its Allumi team from last year again, instead of mining many of the other MALA teams this year?

We Verona alumni didn't mine anything. The Channel 4 News Team was created by MIDDLETON players, and happened to include a fair amount of Verona graduates. What are you so upset about?

If you're trying to insinuate that our goal was to eliminate the competition by taking their best players, than that is the most laughable suggestion you've made. I take that back.

Actually, the most laughable suggestion was that comment about Sid doing a "fairly decent job." I guarantee that if Wisconsin didn't have such a lack of referee's, Sid would be out of a job. I have never played in, or witnessed a Sid Flanders-reffed game where he did even a fair job...they have all been debacles. The only consistency Sid Flanders brings to the table is his willingness to ref games and get paid. And Referee, "fairly decent" doesn't cut it in reffing.

It was upsetting to me that the Badger State Games this year did not have competition at the post high school level. I blame those who put together the Channel 4 News Team for that, because by mining all the local allumi players, they effectively prevented clubs from forming their own teams (like Verona did last year). I had been looking forward to seeing allumi team level of competition in the BSG this year, and I know of some players who would have like to have seen the same. But it didn't happen because those who decided to form a MALA Alumni team jumped the gun on it instead.

Interesting point.

The Channel 4 News Team consisted of 7 Verona alumnus, 10 Middleton alumnus, and 2 Madison West alumnus. Had we not have formed the CH4 News Team, NONE OF US would have had the opportunity to play in Badger State, Brewtown, or any other summer tournament. I find it interesting that you say our team "prevented clubs from forming their own teams", because the loss of Neuman/Boyd from West (while in my eyes the best players that West ever had) in no way prevented the creation of a West alumnus team, numbers-wise. Us 7 Verona kids couldn't have formed a team of our own, and those 10 Middleton kids could not have, either.

Now that you have enough information to make a relevant point, do you honestly believe that had CH4 News never existed, three more teams would have entered the Badger State Games 19 and Over division? If so, I guess you prefer quantity over quality...which can be applied to the referee situation in the state, as well.

DwinsChamps wrote:

Actually, the most laughable suggestion was that comment about Sid doing a "fairly decent job." I guarantee that if Wisconsin didn't have such a lack of referee's, Sid would be out of a job. I have never played in, or witnessed a Sid Flanders-reffed game where he did even a fair job...they have all been debacles. The only consistency Sid Flanders brings to the table is his willingness to ref games and get paid. And Referee, "fairly decent" doesn't cut it in reffing.

It's clear to me that you and maybe a few others have a personal vendetta against the guy. I've seen plenty of games he officiated that weren't debacles. He has done more for promoting lacrosse in this area than you realize. He deserves respect from players and others both on and off the field, whether he gives out that same respect or not.

DwinsChamps wrote:

Now that you have enough information to make a relevant point, do you honestly believe that had CH4 News never existed, three more teams would have entered the Badger State Games 19 and Over division? If so, I guess you prefer quantity over quality...which can be applied to the referee situation in the state, as well.

It might have been possible, but there is no way of knowing for sure. There are a lot more alumni lacrosse players in and around Madison who didn't get invited to be on the CH4 team, but who might have liked to have played in the BSGs.

The whole idea of the BSG is not to have super stars only but rather to provide a forum for athletes who may not go on to higher levels after high school to still have the opportunity to compete in sports they enjoy playing. It's not meant to be for only elite athletes.

But this year, there was no quality, either, because only one team signed up. quantity was lacking.

I respect Sid Flanders for his willingness travel on his own time and referee lacrosse games. That said, and as a proponent of WI lacrosse for about 8 years, I do not respect him as an officiator. I know of approximately 100 players who find Sid Flanders to be as reprehensible of a referee as I find him to be, (not including the entirety of the Upper Midwest Lacrosse League) perhaps because we all know the pain of consistently being on the receiving end of bogus calls and disrespect.

If I were in charge of coordinating referees for the state of Wisconsin, I would love to have someone as enthusiastic as Sid Flanders. As one of the more experienced players in the state, I cannot sit by idly as Sid ruins the lacrosse experience of another generation of young players, and promulgates his appaling version of the NCAA rulebook to impressionable young referee's who mistakingly believe that Sid Flanders is competent.

Some may call this a "vendetta", but most know that I'm trying to protect the game that I love.

DwinsChamps wrote:

... If so, I guess you prefer quantity over quality...which can be applied to the referee situation in the state, as well.

When it comes right down to it, I'd have to say "yes", because without an adequate supply of US Lacrosse certified referees, the games can't be officially started.